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How To Say Goodbye with Drew Moser
Drew's departure from the Fathoms podcast marks a significant transition for everyone involved, as they reflect on the challenges and growth that come with saying goodbye. Throughout the conversation, Drew shares his journey of reinventing himself after losing his job and the emotional complexities that accompany such a change. The team discusses the importance of acknowledging loss and the value of maintaining connections, even when circumstances evolve. They explore how transitions can lead to personal growth and a deeper understanding of one's identity beyond professional roles. As they reminisce about their shared experiences, the group emphasizes gratitude for the influence and camaraderie they’ve built over the years, affirming that while goodbyes can be painful, they also pave the way for new beginnings.
One of Drew's Favorite Episodes: Conversation | Grief, Hope, & Kindness with Leslie Hershberger
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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: Serious Work for Unserious Humans
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Help Fathoms, By Supporting Us Here: Fathoms Membership Community
Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks
Production/Editing: Liminal Podcasts
- Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram
- Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
- Follow Creek: @_creekmore
- Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm
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Transcript
Drew, you want to bring this in?
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:Hey, friends.
Speaker B:Welcome to Fathoms.
Speaker B:I'm sad, but happy to see sad laughter you all.
Speaker B:Oh, my word.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:This is surreal, for sure.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's really, really good to be together.
Drew:Indeed.
Drew:Indeed.
Drew:So we're here today to.
Drew:I don't.
Drew:I don't want to say it.
Speaker B:Fire me.
Drew:Yeah.
Drew:No, Drew.
Drew:Drew has been in a.
Drew:Was a founding member of Fathoms and has increasingly had more children and responsibilities over those years.
Drew:I guess you haven't had any new children since starting Fathoms, but no one's.
Speaker D:Gonna say, wait a minute.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:No grandchildren, no.
Speaker B:Wow.
Drew:That he knows of.
Speaker B:No.
Drew:So, yeah, we are.
Drew:We're here to just kind of catch up with Drew and wish him well on his next adventures.
Speaker B:So.
Drew:So, I guess.
Drew:I mean, you did the finale for season four.
Drew:That was like, 15 years ago.
Drew:Something like that.
Speaker B:He's a much younger man then.
Speaker B:Yes.
Drew:So what's been taking up your time over the past couple years?
Speaker B:Yeah, a lot of things.
Speaker B:I lost my job, so that was my job, which, uh, I.
Speaker B:The writing was kind of on the wall, so I'd been preparing for that for a while.
Speaker B:But when it actually happened, I think what I was ill prepared for was the sheer volume of just time and energy it would take and just psychological kind of headspace that switching careers would take.
Speaker B:So now that I'm on the other side of it, I can look back and, you know, really thankful for this transition and happy to talk more about that.
Speaker B:But I did lose my job.
Speaker B:No fault of my own, mind you.
Speaker B:So I didn't.
Speaker B:I didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker B:No scandals or anything like that.
Speaker B:But the university, you know, that was teaching at.
Speaker B:In the program I was teaching in the program just wasn't viable enough to keep me.
Speaker B:So I had to switch careers, and I was prepared for that.
Speaker B:But what.
Speaker B:Yeah, like I said, what I wasn't prepared for was just how much time and energy.
Speaker B:It was an overwhelming transition, being someone in my, you know, my mid-40s, having to do something completely new that I was not aware of or prepared for in.
Speaker B:In maybe the practical ways.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was overwhelming.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:I took a job that's somewhat tangential, I guess, to higher education, but remote, which is great.
Speaker B:So I didn't have to uproot the family or anything like that.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But it's been a steep learning curve for that role along with it, because I'm a three and McGlutton for punishment.
Speaker B:You know, I've also launched this career in real estate and been building that up in terms of helping people buy and sell homes, but then also doing some of my own real estate investing, which sounds really glamorous, but really just means I buy.
Speaker B:I bought a couple properties that have needed a ton of work.
Speaker B:So while all this was all in, all this kind of came to a head at once.
Speaker B:Not really planned, but I felt like I had gone from having one job, which had quite a bit of flexibility to allow me to do fathoms and other enneagram work and those sorts of things, to having, like, three really new jobs, all of which I did not feel like I was an expert in, which is a new space for me and a very humbling space for me.
Speaker B:You know, going from being literally the expert in the room as a professor to I have no idea what I'm doing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I just have to figure this out.
Speaker B:And so that was a recipe for, I think, survival.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I just have to do what needs to be done to get to the next day.
Speaker B:Which led to me having to step away from fathoms, which was really hard to do.
Speaker B:And I resisted it in an unhealthy three way by just avoiding and hoping it would just kind of resolve itself.
Speaker B:And, of course, that.
Speaker B:That doesn't.
Speaker B:Right, and so.
Speaker B:It doesn't.
Speaker B:No, it doesn't.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:Well, I'd like.
Drew:I'd like to assume that part of the reason you lost your job was because of how good of a job you were doing in fathoms is they were just like, man, wow.
Drew:You know, or some of the things you said.
Speaker B:I'm sure we could.
Speaker B:We could connect those dots, right?
Speaker B:I'm sure we could connect those dots.
Speaker B:I'm not sure my former boss could connect them, but, yes, I'm sure we could.
Drew:Yeah, that's.
Drew:That's a lot.
Drew:That's a lot.
Drew:Drew, um, Going.
Drew:Going from the outstanding professional you were in that space to the beginner, what.
Drew:What kind of inner work did that take?
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:So I think.
Speaker B:I think I'll be able to speak to some things I've been able to see and observe.
Speaker B:But also, I don't know that I'm far enough away from it to be able to articulate it very well.
Speaker B:But I think a lot about, you know, when we were doing ATA trainings and work and we talked about beginner's mind, and I drew remind myself a lot that having a beginner's mind was really the only way I could make sense of what I was trying to do and figure out without going crazy.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because it was.
Speaker B:I can't.
Speaker B:I can't overstate how difficult it was for me to go from.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Being an authority in something, having done it for 15 years, having written books, you know, having to going to.
Speaker B:I have no idea what I'm doing, and I need help with everything.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That was so hard, and it just required me reminding.
Speaker B:I had to remind myself a lot.
Speaker B:Have a beginner's mind.
Speaker B:Have a beginner's mind and be curious.
Speaker B:Have a growth mindset.
Speaker B:All these things that I would preach, you know, to my students or, you know, enneagram workshops, you know, those sorts of things.
Speaker B:I was suddenly, like, staring right in the face.
Speaker B:It's a lot easier to tell someone else to do it than it is to do it yourself.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that would be one thing.
Speaker B:Also, I think I was able to observe that I've worked probably twice as hard as in the past, you know, 10 months than I have ever worked, I think.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:But I'm.
Speaker B:I can honestly say I'm happier.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, it's been so hard, but it has been so good in so many ways.
Speaker B:So I think it's been a needed change.
Speaker B:It's been.
Speaker B:And it's just been a good reminder that sometimes really difficult transitions can be really beautiful.
Speaker B:They don't have to be simply brutal.
Speaker B:You know, they can be also really beautiful.
Speaker B:And I've also, I think maybe observe that betting on myself has been a really vulnerable thing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But has been also really fulfilling.
Speaker B:And it has required me to be kind of kind to myself in ways that I didn't expect.
Speaker B:So those are some things that.
Speaker B:That feels like early returns.
Speaker B:Right on.
Speaker B:Because I just.
Speaker B:I left my, you know, previous, you know, teaching role in May, and so in some ways, that feels like a lifetime ago.
Speaker B:But that's not very long.
Drew:No.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:We're in October at the time of this recording.
Speaker C:For the listener.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker C:Just a few months.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I have no idea when this comes out again.
Drew:We don't either.
Speaker B:I want to say I look forward to listening to it whenever.
Speaker C:Abram, before you ask your question, I just want to say, Drew, I am so glad that your children have gotten a chance to witness you going through this, because I think that for kids, the worst thing we can do is, like, shelter them from how hard life can be for us as adults.
Speaker C:But to get to have you as a dad and to watch you reinvent yourself and watch you do new things, I think that is going to be huge.
Speaker C:For them as they encounter those opportunities in their own lives.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, I hope so.
Speaker B:I appreciate you saying that.
Speaker B:You know, there's this kind of cultural meme out there that, why is dad always pissed?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I kind of.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:You know, looking back, I probably lived into that a little bit when I knew things were not good with that.
Speaker B:There's not a sustainable path for my previous kind of career, and I guarantee you they absorbed a lot of that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And have also witnessed me kind of just figuring it out, and I hope that that rubs off on them in a positive way, and maybe dad isn't quite as pissed anymore, you know?
Drew:Yeah, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm being somewhat facetious.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Drew, I wanted to touch on that.
Speaker D:That word Lindsay just mentioned.
Speaker D:Reinventing of yourself.
Speaker D:Reinvention.
Speaker D:Are there any.
Speaker D:Are there any new attributes or characteristics that you've had to add to your life in this transition?
Speaker D:And are there any old characteristics or attributes you've had to let go of in this transition?
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Man.
Speaker B:This is fathoms.
Speaker B:This is certainly fathoms.
Drew:King depths.
Speaker B:You guys are amazing.
Speaker B:What'd you say?
Drew:Plumbing the King depths.
Speaker D:We haven't gone explicit.
Speaker B:Have we gone explicit?
Drew:We haven't gone.
Speaker C:We have now.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I guess we have now.
Drew:Sorry, Mom.
Speaker B:So, okay, so some things, I think this, like, the simple answer would be, well, you know, as an enneagram.
Speaker B:Three, I just had to adapt, which is.
Speaker B:But I think that that feels insufficient because I.
Speaker B:I think I.
Speaker B:I've had to do a few things.
Speaker B:One, I've had to.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of this, to be honest, is kind of my baggage in my pre.
Speaker B:My religious kind of context and upbringing.
Speaker B:That would tell me a few things.
Speaker B:One, that sales is bad.
Speaker B:And that's all I do now is sales.
Speaker B:I just sell stuff, right?
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And that sales is kind of, you know, slimy and, you know, those sorts of things.
Speaker B:And I think I've had to really lean into the fact that it doesn't have to be right.
Speaker B:If I can be authentically me and really try to help people, then it's more about solving problems than it is about, you know, making a quick buck or anything like that.
Speaker B:But my entire life is sales right now.
Speaker B:And so that.
Speaker B:That's something.
Speaker B:And then along with that, that even in this is.
Speaker B:Even at war with my personality as a three, that how I receive an internalized success, right.
Speaker B:As something that is to be suspicious of, perhaps, or wary of.
Speaker B:I've had to really wrestle through that because, you know, there's another.
Speaker B:Another mantra I've said, other than beginner's mind, is, have you guys watched the miniseries Fleabag at all?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker D:No.
Speaker B:Amazon Prime.
Speaker B:Do you know which one I'm talking about there?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It was really critically acclaimed.
Speaker B:Don't watch it with your kids.
Speaker B:You know, those sorts of things.
Speaker B:But Creek.
Speaker B:Don't watch it with your kids.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker B:Uncle Creek.
Speaker B:It's not a good Uncle Creek show.
Speaker B:Not bonding time with Uncle Creek.
Drew:Stick with us to talk about afterwards.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's a really important line in that from the protagonist character Fleabag, who says, if you want to change your life, change your life.
Speaker B:And I was at a point where I wanted to change my life, and I did.
Speaker B:And then what I wasn't prepared for is being willing for kind of the consequences that come of that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, and being okay with them because it felt suspicious or kind of odd or strange to be successful in these endeavors.
Speaker B:Which sounds weird.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:And it's hard to explain, but some of that is, you know, there certain circles of, you know, religion that, you know, it has to be difficult and suffering, and it has to be sacrificial perpetually.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And there certainly have been elements of that, but there also been elements like, wow, really, this is how I can actually do this.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:It actually provides in these ways.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:It feels like I'm being valued for the work that I'm putting in.
Speaker B:You know, all these are somewhat new things to me.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So it feels suspicious in some ways.
Speaker B:And so I've had to really embrace that part of it.
Speaker B:I've also had to.
Speaker B:You know, it's required a lot of grief.
Speaker B:Abram.
Speaker B:That I didn't expect to have to go through because I given up a career that I was convinced I was going to retire from.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And that was hard to let go of in ways, even though I was really ready for it.
Speaker B:Frustrated and ready for a change.
Speaker B:I think it's been hard in some ways, too, because my former employer is, you know, six blocks away, so.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:So there's no getting away from it necessarily.
Speaker B:But I'm also not a part of it in those.
Speaker B:In the ways in which I was before.
Drew:So preserving three.
Drew:I mean, a lot of this transition deeply threatened your identity.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:And the things that are deeply important to you.
Speaker B:Mm.
Drew:So, I mean, we're all fans of awareness to action here.
Drew:What was that?
Drew:How.
Drew:How did you kind of spin that authenticity piece?
Drew:I can feel more outstanding if I do this sort of thing.
Drew:If I do this action.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think the striving to feel outstanding is always perpetually there, right.
Speaker B:And like, I'll.
Speaker B:I'll never shake it.
Speaker B:And I think what the past 10 months has really showed me is in times of transition or uncertainty, how the preserving aspect of my personality really kicks into overdrive.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So because I lost my job and gained three, right.
Speaker B:And looking back, I didn't have to.
Speaker B:I didn't have to do these three things all at the same time, but, you know, it has to be an aspect of my preserving nature that where I felt like, hey, I just need to say yes to these things.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because I think, you know, probably what a lot of listeners don't know that may know I have a lot of kids, but they probably don't know a lot about them.
Speaker B:You know, I have five kids and four of them are teenagers.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:And if you've raised teenagers, you know that it's the most expensive phase of parenting, probably by multiple acts.
Speaker B:And, you know, I have four of them, right.
Speaker B:And so I've got one in college, I've got another one on the way next year, and then another one the following year after that.
Speaker B:And I solve three in college at once.
Speaker B:And, you know, you.
Speaker B:You can start to do the math and it gets really, really overwhelming pretty quickly.
Speaker B:And so that's driving to feel outstanding in some ways got really kind of distilled and clarified to how can I survive this transition, this major career change at the expensive time in my life.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker B:And come through.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so outstanding has been more localized, I think, than it ever has been before.
Speaker B:So before striving to feel outstanding is, hey, let's write this enneagram book.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Let's become a known presence in that community.
Speaker B:Let's, you know, these sorts of things have always been, I don't know, top of mind, but certainly there.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And now it's more, you know, hey, how are you going to take care of this in this season?
Speaker B:Whereas, you know, a lot of people who lose.
Speaker B:Lose their careers in higher education, it can be a real struggle, right.
Speaker B:Because what else do you do?
Speaker B:So I think striving to feel that same was, well, I'll show them I can, I can bounce back, no problem.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And of course it's been really hard and difficult for all the reasons I explained.
Speaker B:But at the same time, I think that's.
Speaker B:That's really been the driving force and purpose behind that striving to feel outstanding mixed with my preserving, of course.
Speaker D:I mean, it sounds as though your definition of success is expanded into.
Speaker D:For one.
Speaker D:I know that you maybe weren't super excited about the transition, but you went into it, you embraced it, and I think that says something about your willingness to recognize this has to look different.
Speaker D:You know, you're going into something hard, which is expanding success in my mind.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, I like that spin on it.
Speaker B:I think probably the.
Speaker B:I think what's also true, especially about, you know, us threes, is that it's easy for us to see how the grass will be greener.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And then once we're in the.
Speaker B:The thick of it, realize, whoa, what.
Speaker B:Why didn't I see this coming?
Speaker B:This is more difficult than I thought.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then having to find a way through and.
Speaker B:But yeah, my.
Speaker B:I think my definition of success has certainly maybe expanded in some ways, but it's also contracted in others.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, I feel far more narrowly focused and localized in my definition of success than ever before.
Speaker B:Um, which I think in some ways is good in clarifying.
Speaker B:In other ways, it's.
Speaker B:It's challenging.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker D:Well, we're gonna probably get into a little bit more heaviness here, but I wanted to just bring us into some more nostalgia.
Speaker D:So nervous before we go into some.
Speaker B:What kind of receipts you've all kept.
Speaker D:Some sadder things again?
Speaker D:Well, no, we really wanted to just talk, you know, reminisce a bit about the good old times, you know, that we.
Speaker D:We've had with our.
Speaker D:Our brilliant, fun, wise friend Drew, who could, you know, take all this.
Speaker D:This especially.
Speaker D:I remember early on, Creek and I would come in with just, like, the most esoteric, weird stuff, and Drew would, like, figure out how to.
Speaker D:Guys, nobody can understand what's happening.
Speaker D:And you would figure out how to just make it concise.
Speaker B:Lindsay, good luck.
Speaker C:Is the mantle falling to me now?
Speaker D:Well, I think we've learned a lot from you in that regard, Drew, to how to communicate better in one way.
Speaker D:But, yeah, we just wanted to reminisce a bit about.
Speaker D:Maybe hear from you, too.
Speaker D:What are some of your favorite moments throughout the time that you were a part of?
Speaker D:Fathoms?
Speaker B:Oh, I mean, dogs to goats, obviously.
Speaker C:Season one, right?
Speaker B:Season one, Episode one, probably.
Speaker B:Was it pretty close?
Drew:Pretty close, yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I think.
Speaker B:You know, I think some of my favorite moments.
Speaker B:This would probably be an unsatisfying answer to the listenership, but are all the mo.
Speaker B:Like, a lot of the moments that are behind the scenes where it's just an opportunity to connect?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And that's What I think was most difficult about stepping away from the podcast was knowing that that meant stepping away from what was kind of consistently baked in interaction with you.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Because it's rare to find kind of kindred spirits around kind of a common subject or topic or framework that you really like and get along with and want to spend time with.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So that's certainly part of it.
Speaker B:I think some of the.
Speaker B:I think some of the early moments where we were just.
Speaker B:I think, naively just saying, we're interested in this thing together.
Speaker B:Let's just figure out how to do a podcast.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, the.
Speaker B:Looking back, those were really fun.
Speaker B:And I have fond memories of those, I think.
Speaker B:And like I said at the very beginning, you know, learning one another's intricacies and appreciating them, you know, like I.
Drew:Said, and despising them.
Speaker B:Critiquing our audio and Lindsay having snacks, you know, those sorts of things.
Speaker B:I think those are the things I really cherish and remember.
Speaker B:Also, I think having access to, like, the podcast, giving us a platform to have access to some really just incredible conversations with some beautiful beings was really rewarding and fulfilling for me because, I mean, Lord knows we didn't make much.
Speaker B:We didn't make any money off of this thing, but it was really rich in these other ways.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Where it gave us an opportunity to just interact and kind of rub shoulders with some people in this space that I really value.
Speaker B:And that was.
Speaker B:So those are the memories I'll take with me.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:And then the very few times we were actually able to get together in person, because, you know, we created this thing in the season of COVID and so.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Which no one was getting together.
Speaker B:And so in some ways, it was the perfect Covid project, but in other ways, it was really challenging because we never actually spent time in the same space together.
Speaker B:Rarely did.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker B:So the few times we did were special, for sure.
Drew:I'm curious, Drew, where was.
Drew:Do you remember where you were seated for the first Fathoms podcast?
Speaker B:I have some guesses, but I don't.
Drew:I actually don't remember either.
Speaker B:But because we were.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:I was still.
Speaker B:You know, you're all musicians, and I'm the opposite of that, whatever that is.
Speaker B:And so I remember I was really.
Speaker B:I don't know how to do this audio thing.
Speaker B:Microphone.
Speaker B:It may have been in one of my kids, like, bedroom closets.
Speaker B:Say, very well could have been.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I don't know for sure.
Speaker B:I don't remember.
Drew:I for sure was in a closet.
Drew:I think Seth was as well.
Speaker C:Yeah, my first episode with you guys was in a closet too.
Speaker B:Maybe that's just what podcasters do.
Speaker B:They feel like they have to start in this closet and realize, okay, maybe we can.
Speaker B:Yeah, we can figure out the audio.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:Started in a garage.
Drew:Apple started in a garage.
Drew:Fathom started in several closets.
Drew:I'm recalling.
Drew:It's still just a very fond memory.
Drew:This is pre Lindsay, so not as wonderful, of course.
Drew:But of course, one of our Fathom's retreats where we, we did a.
Drew:We got an Airbnb in the middle of nowhere and the review afterwards was the best.
Drew:The most good looking guests I've ever had in my time.
Drew:They cooked, they cleaned, and they were so nice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:And I remember that host Adams, baby.
Speaker B:And so one of the, One of my ventures is we are Airbnb hosts now.
Speaker B:Not in our home, but we have.
Speaker B:And looking back, like, those hosts were around a lot.
Speaker B:Probably too much.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was funny.
Speaker B:I also remember that was my first, like, realization.
Speaker B:Oh, Creek is a foodie.
Speaker B:Because we, you know, it's just three dudes in an Airbnb in the middle of nowhere, Kentucky.
Speaker B:We went grocery shopping and I think I, I took out a second mortgage in my house for that grocery.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker D:I remember thinking, are we inviting other people to this?
Speaker B:Like, this is what I spend for my family.
Speaker B:A seven in like a month.
Speaker B:No, I'm being dramatic for effect, but we ate very well.
Speaker B:We ate very well.
Drew:We did.
Speaker B:And that's two for us.
Speaker D:And we had.
Speaker D:The aesthetics were amazing too.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's.
Drew:That was with Will as well.
Drew:That was.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:That was with Will.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was.
Speaker B:Yeah, that.
Speaker B:That was a magical weekend in a lot of ways.
Speaker B:It was fun.
Drew:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Drew:I don't, I don't know if.
Drew:I mean, people can probably go back and listen, I don't remember what we said, but my buddy Will, who's a, who's a transmitting 4, while we were out hiking, like, he was back doing some work stuff and he looked at the dishes that were in the Airbnb.
Drew:He's like, this isn't good enough.
Drew:So he goes to Goodwill and finds like, paraphernalia to make the dinner table look straight out of like, I don't know, a fine dining farm to table restaurant.
Drew:I'm like, yes, this is.
Speaker B:And yeah, it was one of those, like, beautiful examples of just because, you know, for, you know, the transmitting 4 is like, no, this is worth doing just because.
Drew:Exactly.
Drew:Right Exactly.
Speaker B:So that was experience, Richard.
Speaker B:Fun moment, for sure.
Speaker D:Well, I wanted to ask you, Drew, besides dogs and goats, one of my best comments of all time, is there a single episode or that we just did or interview that you remember that really stands out to you?
Speaker D:That was your favorite.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's a great question.
Speaker B:And probably one again past Blind three ness here.
Speaker B:I should have looked back and thought about a little bit.
Speaker B:I think there, it's asking you, like, to pick your favorite kid, which is a dangerous thing to do.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But I do think some of our conversations with Leslie really stick out to me because I think they were the right conversations at the right time, kind of framed in the right way.
Speaker B:We've had some incredibly brilliant guests, but something about.
Speaker B:And I don't remember.
Speaker B:We've had a few conversations with Leslie.
Speaker B:Correct, if I remember.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I don't know what order it was in, if this is the first or second conversation, but it felt like a kind of profound, liminal space sort of moment.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:Was like New Year's.
Drew:New Year's conversation.
Drew:I think that's.
Speaker D:That's right.
Speaker B:I think you're right.
Drew:We'll put it in the show notes.
Drew:But, yeah, it was like we hit something that was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:I don't know.
Drew:You just hit magic.
Drew:We just hit magic on some level.
Speaker B:I remember we had a lot of conversations where I thought, okay, that was a good interview.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We had.
Speaker B:There's a good pace to it.
Speaker B:It was good information for our audience.
Speaker B:But there were times in which it felt like we had all that.
Speaker B:Plus, it was what I needed to hear, or I was moved and convicted or encouraged or sustained, you know, in ways in which I was.
Speaker B:That were unexpected.
Speaker B:And when those conversations happen, it's pretty magical.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:Yeah.
Drew:So we'd like to.
Drew:I mean, we're trying to squeeze as much wisdom out of Drew as possible right now, so let's.
Drew:I'd love for us to kind of talk about a little bit more of what goodbye looks like, how to say goodbye.
Drew:Well, and kind of what we've learned with the changes and transitions in all of our lives over the past few years, just because I think, especially in today's world, there's a lot of.
Drew:A lot of uncertainty.
Drew:There's a lot of upheaval.
Drew:There's a lot of.
Drew:I mean, we just got done with two hurricanes hitting the south pretty.
Drew:Pretty hard.
Drew:Yeah.
Drew:And so I guess, Drew, we'll start with you.
Drew:What are some examples of times that you've had to say goodbye but you weren't Ready to.
Speaker B:Oh, boy.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, I can think of.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Lost loved ones.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Hugh?
Speaker B:I wasn't expecting to have to say goodbye so soon or, you know, so there's certainly those examples.
Speaker B:I also think, you know, when you live in a college town, there's a lot of transients.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because it's a pretty fluid community.
Speaker B:And so you have to learn how to say goodbye a lot to people who kind of come in and out of your life.
Speaker B:And so I think those have been lessons to say, okay, it's.
Speaker B:You can.
Speaker B:There are a lot of different ways to say goodbye.
Speaker B:One can be goodbye forever.
Speaker B:Like, I don't know if we'll ever connect again or see each other again or goodbye.
Speaker B:And let's grieve that.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:The way in which we've known how to be in a relationship is now gone.
Speaker B:But now let's redefine what it looks like to stay connected and that's, you know, in full transparency.
Speaker B:I want to figure that out with you three.
Speaker B:So, you know, because I'm not, I'm not going to be a part of Fathoms, the regular.
Speaker B:Hopefully I can be an occasional, like, cameo appearance or something.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like that.
Speaker B:But I just knew that if I continued to.
Speaker B:And I let this drag on way too long.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:If I, but if I continued to avoid having to say goodbye to this.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That it would, it wouldn't be good for anyone.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so now, now we have to.
Speaker B:So we have to say goodbye to this and then figure out, okay, what is, what does it look like to.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, stay friends and, and how.
Speaker B:How do those terms and conditions of the friendship look?
Speaker B:Because that requires.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Truly saying goodbye to this in order to say hello to maybe whatever the next phase looks like.
Speaker B:So, so yeah, I don't, you know, having to say goodbye to a career has been its own journey.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so I don't want to harp on that anymore, but necessarily.
Speaker B:But that has required me to think through what does it look like to say goodbye to something that I poured myself into, got a PhD for, you know, put all this time and energy into, and now it's gone.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Trying to really embrace, you know, this, this everything belongs kind of notion to it, that, hey, I can say goodbye to that.
Speaker B:But I also isn't wasted either.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And there's newness and freshness that can come with the other side to goodbye.
Speaker B:Right.
Drew:Right.
Speaker B:I feel I'm struggling to answer your question because I don't, I don't know that I.
Speaker B:Good grasp of how to say goodbye.
Drew:Well, yeah, I think it's.
Drew:For me, there's so many different versions of that, and there's, like, external goodbyes.
Drew:There's also internal goodbyes for me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:Of different parts of myself, different versions of myself, different old habits that I'm comfortable with and I'm afraid to let go of because I don't know how to deal with life without those things.
Drew:And I think that it just keeps working for me when it comes to dealing with everything as.
Drew:Yes.
Drew:And even things that are completely contradictory.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:So, I mean, my sister just got married a few months ago.
Drew:I don't know, maybe it's more than that.
Drew:I've lost track of time.
Drew:But these jokers were taking bets on when I'd cry in the ceremony.
Speaker B:Happy and who won?
Drew:Shed a tear.
Drew:No, but obviously, I mean, my family's super close, and it's especially.
Drew:She's 10 years younger than I am.
Drew:We're really close.
Drew:And so that was weird because I'm, like, happy for her and also, like, I don't.
Drew:This.
Drew:Everything has been the same for so long, and so much, so much change happens when you bring an entirely new person, let alone that person's family into the mix.
Drew:And so for myself and for, you know, my family, who want things, like, things to stay the same.
Drew:But how can we say yes to what we value about what we do, our traditions, all those things, how can we say yes to that and either add or alter to where we're keeping the same sentimentality, the same sort of essence?
Drew:Call back to our first episode.
Speaker B:Have we figured out ego in essence yet?
Speaker D:Amen.
Drew:Well, that's another conversation.
Drew:But, yeah, just saying yes and to the essence of what we value and carrying that forward into new, different action.
Drew:And it does.
Drew:It takes this thing away a little bit, and that's not necessarily the goal because it's just always going to suck.
Drew:I mean, yeah, it sucks that you're leaving.
Drew:I mean, that's just.
Drew:That's just fact.
Drew:Right.
Drew:But I'm also so happy to see you thriving, to see you betting on yourself and winning, and that's just.
Drew:That's just beautiful.
Drew:So, yeah, it's.
Drew:Goodbye is always.
Drew:To me, it's it's just a sign of we're living and we're moving and that's.
Drew:That's what we're here for.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Mm.
Speaker B:No, that's.
Speaker B:Well put.
Speaker B:That tracks creek.
Speaker B:Yes, it does.
Speaker D:I'll say briefly from.
Speaker D:From my experience, there's lots of things that I have not been ready for.
Speaker D:To say.
Speaker D:To say goodbye to.
Speaker D:But I think saying goodbye is a form of loss.
Speaker D:And I think, you know, there's a lot of different misconceptions about loss.
Speaker D:But what I know, what I have learned about loss is that it's accumulative if it's not grieved, if it's not given space to feel the sad feelings that come up.
Speaker D:My best definition for loss is any normal pattern that comes to an end, and that's something that should be grieved.
Speaker D:And this was a pretty consistent normal pattern, you know, fathoms that we got to do with Drew.
Speaker D:And so there's.
Speaker D:There's definitely emotions involved in that loss.
Speaker D:And so for me, I've had to just give myself slow down whenever there's a goodbye, because if I don't feel the emotions that are coming up, I will miss them and they will accumulate, because that's what also what I know about losses, it accumulates.
Speaker D:It doesn't just disappear because I haven't dealt with it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And then it shows up sideways in other ways in the future that I.
Speaker D:That I think I'm in.
Speaker D:But I'm really still, you know, living through some kind of the past seven that grieved yet.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker D:And for me, that would be around similar loss of job as a pastor and, you know, the singer songwriter career that I.
Speaker D:That I had for a lot of years too.
Speaker D:Those are.
Speaker D:I really resonate with you, Drew, and just kind of having to unexpectedly reinvent yourself in a lot of ways and not really being.
Speaker D:Seeing that was coming or being up for it or wanting to Or.
Speaker D:Or.
Speaker D:But realizing there was a need.
Speaker D:And then I still remember realizing singer songwriter Seth wasn't all of me.
Speaker D:It was just a part of me.
Speaker D:And one of the things that I learned was that I have a lot more capacity than I realized.
Speaker D:There's a lot more to me than.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Than that guy.
Speaker D:And now I.
Speaker D:I'm.
Speaker D:I found out, you know, what else I could do, which is.
Speaker D:Which.
Speaker D:Not Wasn't.
Speaker D:Wasn't at a.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:A very.
Speaker D:Grow a beard scary journey.
Speaker D:I grew a beard.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Drew:It's.
Speaker D:I've never done that.
Speaker B:Is it a beard?
Speaker B:I feel like Drake's about to challenge.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:I have nothing left to say.
Speaker D:I'm just gonna grieve the loss of my inability to grow a proper beard.
Speaker B:Well, I just turned 45 recently, and I still can't grow one, so.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:But I think Abram, you're absolutely right.
Speaker B:I think it has really.
Speaker B:This season of transition for me has really challenged the notion of being too closely identifying with what I do.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because when that gets taken away, who are you?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And it is so good to.
Speaker B:As hard as it is, it's so good to be in those seasons of life which remind you that you are more than fill in the blank.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because if that blank is truly taken away, then you have to realize that, you know, you're more than that.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's a good word.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker B:Beard adjacent.
Speaker C:Beard adjacent.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I've noticed a pattern in my life when it comes to transitions and goodbyes, where it's like, I'm just going to stay here with these people in this situation until it's not possible any longer.
Speaker C:And I lose so much agency when I do that.
Speaker C:And the truth is that every transition, every goodbye, that's been really painful for me.
Speaker C:I've seen it coming, like, a long time in advance, but I wasn't ready to.
Speaker C:I wasn't ready to look at that pain because it felt like looking at that pain meant that I would have to look away from what was really beautiful about that time of my life.
Speaker C:So I feel like now, at this point in my life, I have a greater capacity to.
Speaker C:There are some situations right now I'm like, I know that I am in the middle of a transition, and it's not totally obvious, and I can't see the path forward clearly yet, but I feel this familiar feeling of, like, the shift.
Speaker C:And so my work right now is like, how do I claim my agency?
Speaker C:Say what I want, say what my desires are and start moving in that direction before I'm in a situation where it's like, I just have to take whatever's coming because I'm out of options at this point.
Speaker C:I didn't plan ahead.
Speaker C:I didn't.
Speaker C:I wasn't honest early enough to claim my agency and really steer the ship.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, they were.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I'm trying to do that work now.
Speaker C:And you do have situations that pop up.
Speaker C:Like, we have a situation right now with our home where it's like, are we going to be able to stay here?
Speaker B:Or.
Speaker C:It's like, something going to happen to us.
Speaker C:It's going to put us in a position where we have to move before we were ready to.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker B:Do you need a realtor, by the way?
Speaker B:Lindsey?
Speaker B:I'm not licensed in your state.
Speaker C:I was going to say, please call 5, 9.
Speaker C:We're going to take a quick commercial break.
Speaker C:Um, but, yeah, I.
Speaker C:I feel like, okay, something is happening that I wasn't expecting, but I know I.
Speaker C:I'm going to be okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm well resourced.
Speaker C:My support system is in place.
Speaker C:I trust myself.
Speaker C:I'm confident in myself, and I know that I can do this.
Speaker C:And that's really new for me.
Speaker C:That is really new.
Speaker C:And in the past, I feel like every major transition has come down to a relationship rift, which for me is a two is.
Speaker C:It feels like a death.
Speaker C:It's not just that I'm like moving into a new house or I'm moving to a new state.
Speaker C:It's like I'm dying.
Speaker C:I'm dying.
Speaker C:These relationships are dying.
Speaker C:And it's just.
Speaker C:It's been so much.
Speaker C:Does that music sound sad enough?
Speaker D:Yeah, for what I'm describing, absolutely.
Drew:It's very minor, very intense, very minor, very demure.
Speaker B:At first I thought, is Creek now live?
Speaker B:Like, live.
Speaker D:For the.
Speaker B:She's scoring.
Drew:The production quite a bit.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Drew:Lindsay, what.
Drew:What.
Drew:What you were saying reminded me of one of my friends heard Richard Rohr say.
Drew:Who?
Drew:Anyone who's kind of like listening to him right now.
Drew:He's talking a lot about how he's dying, which is such a downer.
Drew:But the thing that he said was like, someone asked, are you afraid of dying?
Drew:He said, no.
Drew:What I've learned is thus far, every death has enlarged me.
Drew:Whole butterfly and cocoon thing, multiple examples you could pull out here.
Drew:But yeah, just.
Drew:Just that.
Drew:That.
Drew:That the transitions always give way to something not necessarily better, but something different.
Drew:Something.
Drew:A place for you to expand into.
Speaker C:You guys remember that meme I sent you recently with the caterpillar talking to the butterfly?
Speaker C:And the caterpillar's like, is it gonna be okay?
Speaker C:And the butterflies, like, it's going to be so weird.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker C:It feels way more accurate to actual life.
Speaker B:No, it does.
Speaker B:Because, you know, this.
Speaker B:In.
Speaker B:In many ways this feels so normal and Right.
Speaker B:But in other ways, I'm also thinking, I bet they're text.
Speaker B:They're doing the back channel texting right now and I'm not on it, you know, and.
Speaker B:Which is totally appropriate.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But still weird.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And even, you know, going on to when I was the first one on and you.
Speaker B:Everyone was a few minutes late, which also felt a little.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then I sent a text to.
Speaker B:I went to send a text to the group saying, are you guys pranking me?
Speaker B:Like, was this all an elaborate prank, right.
Speaker B:To get back at me for leaving the podcast, that none of you show up.
Speaker B:And I realized I've been removed from the group.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Which again, Totally appropriate.
Speaker B:But also, it's so weird, right?
Speaker B:It's so strange.
Speaker C:I literally cried, like, when we changed our text channel.
Speaker C:Sorry again.
Speaker C:Like, when we changed our text channel and you were in it, I was like, no, it's not.
Speaker C:I can't.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know it's hard.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:And it really does challenge.
Speaker B:Like, one of the things I think Suzanne Stabil said to me once, which really resonated, is that, you know, to a three, every no feels like a failure.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I think that that's part of a huge.
Speaker B:Part of the resistance of saying no to this.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because it feels like, oh, I'm failing this.
Speaker B:Like, I can't juggle it all.
Speaker B:And that has been so.
Speaker B:That's been tough to acknowledge, but also realizing I had to be honest and say, listen, if I continue to push this away, then the podcast fails because of me, and that's way worse.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I just need to own up to my own.
Speaker B:You know, since we're swearing now, I guess Greek and realize that, no, it's not a failure.
Speaker B:It is just an acknowledgment of what is right, and that's.
Speaker B:That honors everyone else far more than my avoidance.
Speaker B:Avoidance strategies in my own unhealthiness.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Well, I just want to say the.
Speaker D:The sadness that I think is present in this conversation, you know, there's.
Speaker D:There's all these misconceptions around emotion.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Especially the one of sadness.
Speaker D:So that these are negative.
Speaker D:They have negative connotations, but from the work of Chip Dodd, he talks about.
Speaker D:We've talked about him before on here even, but he talks about the impairment and the benefit of emotions and the benefit of sadness is that it helps you honor what once was.
Speaker D:And you can say, that was beautiful, and that was really great.
Speaker D:And actually, what comes out of feeling the emotion of sadness is gratitude.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And so I just want to come to a near close here and just say how.
Speaker D:Brings up emotion to me, just how grateful I am for you, Drew.
Speaker D:And the, you know, the years of life that we.
Speaker D:We did even before Fathoms, was, you know, personally incredibly shaping for me.
Speaker D:You were, you know, a massive mentor to me throughout my college years.
Speaker D:But then when we got to reconnect around the Enneagram, and that was such a wild reconnection.
Speaker D:And then I still remember, like, being so averse to, like, you guys wanted to start a podcast.
Speaker D:No, I.
Speaker D:I don't.
Speaker D:I don't think I want to do that.
Speaker D:And, yeah, you're pretty annoying about that.
Speaker D:Thinking about the person I know.
Speaker D:I know, but I.
Speaker D:But the thing is, like, just where I'm going is that the person that I've become out of saying yes to these challenges, these things that I didn't think I was capable of and that I would have immediately say no, said no to.
Speaker D:You're part of, in a lot of ways, the growth that I have taken on in my life and the transformation that I've found and turning into the butterfly I am today.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I just want to say, man, I'm so, so grateful for you, who you are as.
Speaker D:As a person, as a dad, as a leader, as a.
Speaker D:Just on so many levels, man, you've shaped me in beautiful ways.
Speaker D:So thank you.
Speaker B:That deeply honors me, Abram.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Drew:If I can.
Drew:I mean, echo that on a lot of levels.
Drew:But you're.
Drew:You were the dad of the podcast.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:At the time when we started, I was kind of like, I don't.
Drew:I'm just kind of meandering through life, and I think Fathoms was.
Drew:Has been and.
Drew:And still is like, me learning how to trust my voice and that I do have value to contribute.
Drew:No.
Drew:I'm getting emotional.
Drew:And you provided that structure, and I think since then, it's also been a.
Drew:How do I step into my leadership capacity?
Drew:Yeah.
Drew:Given me that opportunity to.
Drew:What if I make the calls and I'm willing to take, like, I, like, you know, trust that I.
Drew:I might know what I'm doing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:And that's, like.
Drew:I think.
Drew:I think I'm.
Drew:I'm looking back just now and just realizing how much it has shaped my trajectory in music, in podcasting.
Drew:I mean, the.
Drew:The amount of podcasting and.
Speaker B:And.
Drew:And connections that I've made through Just Fathoms.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:Is wild.
Drew:And it.
Drew:And it's.
Drew:And it's taking.
Drew:It's.
Drew:It's.
Drew:Yeah.
Drew:It's still informing how I.
Drew:How I grow and how I become.
Drew:So.
Drew:Yeah.
Drew:I.
Drew:I just really appreciate you showing up and helping Abram and I organize our potential.
Drew:Honestly.
Speaker B:Oh, my word.
Speaker D:In a lot of ways, I feel like we projected some of our capacity onto Drew to be the leader, and then when his presence wasn't there.
Speaker D:Oh, well, if we're going to keep this thing going, we've got to find that in us and take it back.
Speaker B:You know, I have no doubts in your abilities to do that, for sure.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker C:I just want to say, too, on behalf of all of us, like, we're.
Speaker C:We're just really, really proud of you.
Speaker C:We're really, really proud of you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker C:And I know that this wasn't an easy decision.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But it was necessary.
Speaker C:And so thank you.
Speaker C:Thank you for doing a hard thing.
Speaker C:It's good.
Speaker C:And I think, too, one of the things about being on a team, you know, like ours, when you're talking and you're working things out together and you're, you know, building these connections over time, is that things come up, you get frustrated with each other.
Speaker C:You have to deal with hard things.
Speaker C:And one thing that I so appreciate about you is that you.
Speaker C:You know how to make a repair.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, and I just want you to know that.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:That may seem like second nature for you.
Speaker C:It may seem like a small thing, but it's not.
Speaker C:It's huge.
Speaker C:To make repair.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And to ask for a hard conversation.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And you've done that with me.
Speaker C:And it's meant so much because I don't experience it in every space in my life.
Speaker C:People who know how to say I'm sorry and make repair.
Speaker C:And it means a lot.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That I'm thankful for your graciousness.
Speaker B:Your collective graciousness towards me, which it truly felt.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Lavish.
Speaker B:In the midst of everything I was going through, um, to realize.
Speaker B:To come to a point realization that, hey, I've.
Speaker B:I've really fallen short here, and you all have been abundantly patient with me, and it's.
Speaker B:It's clear.
Speaker B:It probably clear to everyone.
Speaker B:It was probably clear to you all before it was clear to me that, you know, we've got to figure this out.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And, yeah, your graciousness with me was profound to me in the midst of a really vulnerable and challenging season.
Speaker B:So thank you for that.
Speaker B:And I, too, am just so thankful for Fathoms.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:It started off as this just kind of, hey, let's just start.
Speaker B:Let's start a podcast and talk about it.
Speaker B:And it became an Enneagram podcast.
Speaker B:And then it wasn't.
Speaker B:And then it was again.
Drew:Still not sure if it is.
Speaker D:But.
Speaker B:I deeply appreciate that.
Speaker B:The willingness to just try.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And in.
Speaker B:Especially in a community, the Enneagram community, which is so tribalistic.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so arbitrarily defined by schools and that this crew, you know, we were willing to say, you know what?
Speaker B:Forget that we're gonna try to be inclusive and broaden the conversation without watering it down.
Speaker B:And so I'm.
Speaker B:I'm deeply grateful to be a part of that.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I'll just say it.
Speaker B:Really proud that we were able.
Speaker B:We have been able to do that, and I am so.
Speaker B:It's so bittersweet.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:To see you all proceed without me in.
Speaker B:But also am thankful that you are proceeding without me, that I'm not the guy that killed the podcast because I lost my job.
Speaker B:You know, that's very relieving, not gonna lie.
Speaker B:But also am so excited to be a listener in what you all have in store, because I am so thankful for each of you and the profound influence you've had on my life and wisdom and insight that you've had given me in so many ways.
Drew:Yeah.
Drew:Yeah.
Drew:Thank you.
Drew:Yeah.
Drew:And most listeners are not aware what happens behind the scenes, but like what you were saying, we.
Drew:I do.
Drew:We never set out with this intention, but I think it speaks to the maturity and the intention of all the people on this call of how fiercely we guard our ecumenicalism and how seriously we take deep inner work.
Speaker D:Unity.
Drew:And unity, which is what, again?
Drew:But of people in the back.
Speaker B:Some deep cuts in this episode, for sure.
Speaker D:Diversity maintained and protected by love.
Drew:I think all of us, in our own way, are fiercely committed to that, to the humanization of the Enneagram.
Drew:To.
Drew:We've kind of unofficially adopted our new mantra, which is serious work for unserious people.
Speaker B:Ooh, I like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:And we can take that out later if it's not.
Drew:But just.
Drew:I.
Drew:Yeah.
Drew:Again, all of you just appreciated how serious you take growth, being the best version of yourself you possibly can, being kind, compassionate, and curious and also being ridiculous.
Speaker C:Well, it's okay.
Speaker C:Is it okay if I do something here?
Drew:Okay.
Drew:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So I didn't talk with Craig and Abram about this beforehand, so they're gonna forgive me later.
Speaker C:But, Drew, we've been having conversations about this for actually a really long time, and we kind of kicked around the idea of doing this at the end of this episode, and I think that we should.
Speaker C:So we actually don't think that you're a three.
Speaker C:So I don't know if you're open to having a typing session with us, because we think that you've been mistyped, actually, and we haven't known how to say that.
Speaker B:Did I step into the wrong podcast?
Speaker B:It feels like I'm oddly in another podcast that I was never a part of and would be glad to leave, I think.
Drew:Oh, man.
Speaker B:Oh, you know what?
Speaker B:That feels right to just assert your authority in such a.
Drew:Yes.
Speaker B:Such a way.
Drew:We think you're a four, you know.
Speaker B:Oh, my.
Drew:This explains so many things.
Speaker B:Yeah, that.
Speaker B:That's something, you know, something for me to consider in my.
Speaker B:All my free time now that I won't be on the podcast.
Drew:Yes.
Speaker B:Think about my inherent foreness.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:There's a Called the Enneagram of Discernment.
Speaker C:You might be able to find your type.
Speaker B:Pick that up and read it.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Drew:You probably got about 15 copies somewhere in the garage.
Speaker B:I do.
Drew:Anyway.
Drew:So, again, Drew, we love you.
Drew:Thanks so much.
Drew:How do people contact you for realtor advice?
Speaker B:I guess we gotta live in Indiana, so if you want to relocate to Indiana, just.
Drew:Yeah, all right.
Speaker D:All right.
Speaker B:Google my name and realtor and you'll find me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:Amazing.
Drew:Well, hopefully, yes, you will be back on some episodes in the future, I'm sure.
Speaker B:I hope so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Drew:And, yeah, thanks.
Drew:Love you.
Speaker C:Thank you, Drew.
Speaker B:Love you.
Speaker B:We love you.
Speaker B:Thank you all.
Speaker B:Can't wait to hear what's in store for this season.
Drew:Us too.
Drew:Thanks for listening to this episode of Fathoms, an Enneagram podcast.
Drew:If you found this episode helpful in any way, consider sharing it with a friend or family member.
Drew:We are so honored to be on this journey with you, discovering our inner depths one fathom at a time.
